tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704658911492867741.post4511490717390299697..comments2024-03-18T13:35:56.223+05:30Comments on Mr. Smith Goes to Kathmandu: Game Theory in Nepal- Avoiding the Sucker's BetBrian Smithhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13550716842149752526noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704658911492867741.post-581238601404242252011-04-17T21:07:37.746+05:302011-04-17T21:07:37.746+05:30I added a follow up couple of paragraphs to clarif...I added a follow up couple of paragraphs to clarify the points I was trying to make. While I'm sure there will be people who disagree, I wanted to make it clear that I wasn't trying to crap all over Nepal- but I'm also not backing off the intent of the original post, and game theory has an application to understanding why Nepal is in the spot that it is in. The point wasn't to insult people, but to look at what many people think is very clearly a problem that this country faces.Brian Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13550716842149752526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704658911492867741.post-55361675318371744422011-04-16T22:22:43.740+05:302011-04-16T22:22:43.740+05:30I don't think I was saying that there are not ...I don't think I was saying that there are not honest people here, I was just noting that there is a larger percentage of the population than average that take short bets on situations that if they went in with a longer term vision would come out better. This isn't just a matter of talking to a few business people, this is a clear problem through south Asia. Business practices here aren't known for their honesty and trustworthiness- maybe it's just a perception problem but it's a perception problem that myself and a good chunk of the rest of the world and many Nepali people an business people I've talked to agree with. This isn't about shitting all over Nepal, it's simply looking at what is a widely perceived problem and one that seems especially self destructive considering it not only hurts investment in the country (not just by foreigners but by anyone) but long term hurts the people taking these actions. It's not a matter of re-education, I'm simply suggesting a more insightful look into long term net gains and consequences of action might not hurt. Maybe more accountability, a more clear legal code where the paper matches the reality, maybe it's any number of things, but pretending that there are no problems with what is considered standard business practices here is in my opinion a mistake.<br /><br />As for pretending infallibility you may want to see some of my more recent posts ripping on American policies (Sticking our Noses Where We Shouldn't- defends Nepals right to make it's own destiny free of international meddling in light of wiki-leaks docs, and Looking Back at America From a Distance- I end with stating that I'm happy to be here instead of dealing with the absurdity that is American policy and politics) While at the small business level there are few problems with scams and corruption, my countries upper echelon is horribly corrupt and indeed costs the world billions, if not trillions of dollars in short term thinking that will cause for more suffering in the world than Nepal ever will. But this blog is mostly about my impressions of Nepal, not America or the West, so that's what I wrote about.Brian Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13550716842149752526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704658911492867741.post-60063552576383142732011-04-16T16:57:18.240+05:302011-04-16T16:57:18.240+05:30i'm sorry... this write up is so wrong and off...i'm sorry... this write up is so wrong and offensive in so many ways, i dont even know where to begin. akshay was right 'people are the same everywhere.' for as many corrupt people here, there are just as many honest people. you talk to a few business people and decide that we need to be re-educated? yes our scams here might cost a few hundreds or thousands of dollars but your country's scams cost millions and billions of dollars.<br /> <br />and we do not all make excuses about the state of our country, some of us are actually doing something about it without western investment. i'm so tired of apologising about nepal, yes, things are not always the best here but atleast we dont pretend we are infallible.suruchihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17273846133580104009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704658911492867741.post-2939697484643236692011-04-07T09:30:44.138+05:302011-04-07T09:30:44.138+05:30Perhaps Nepalis will follow the advice of recently...Perhaps Nepalis will follow the advice of recently resigned Finance Secretary, Rameshore Khanal and make 2068 the year to end bribery: http://blog.xnepali.com/rameshore-prasad-khanal-asks-to-take-action-against-corruption/<br /><br />Forgive me if I'm not overly optimistic...Laurenhttp://lozguistics.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704658911492867741.post-21586967170109326682011-04-04T23:15:31.680+05:302011-04-04T23:15:31.680+05:30Look, I'm a big believer in the idea that peop...Look, I'm a big believer in the idea that people are the same everywhere, but there are certain cultural habits around the world that create an environment that shapes how people tend to act. I'm not suggesting that this is something genetic, inescapable, or that western people would act different if their home countries had a similar economic environment, all I'm saying is that in an environment with so many people defrauding each other it's difficult to be that person that goes into a cooperative association and puts their assets out on the line. <br /><br />While there is no doubt some bad practices in the west, it is simply not the case that this is just a matter of scams scaling to the relative value of money. Even if 5$ is a days wage here and $100 is roughly a days wage back in the west, I can count on one hand the number of times people have tried to scam me out of either amount back in the US. I even somewhat pardon the short scams that are clearly targeting tourists as to some extent that does happen anywhere (though here more than most). What I'm more concerned with is the number of business partners, lawyers, and other people with often repeated interaction that take to these actions. Every single person I have spoken with that owns a business here has gone through this, people that were here 10 years, 26, 15. I've been lucky and aside from our first lawyer haven't had a bad experience beyond small items like pork prices per kilo or taxis.<br /><br />This isn't just about westerner's either, I mention it mostly as it's my point of view and that's where my interaction is. But many of the few Nepali run businesses that I have had a chance to talk to the owners or their associates they have run into the same problem of people cheating their own company, negligence, or been screwed by people not paying on goods they delivered or services they rendered. <br /><br />I also was not suggesting that it was westerner's who lay the golden eggs but strategies of mutual cooperation with a little bit of trust that recognizes that if multiple people work together over the long term there is a bigger pay out than the one quick cheat. That one quick cheat mentality is in my experience much more common here than it is in most other parts of the world, and it is from that vantage point that I suggest that a little study or schooling in game theory might not hurt. To deny that this mentality isn't more prevalent here would be looking at Nepal through rose colored glasses.<br /><br /> "What Nepal needs is jobs and stability for an extended period to lift up our economy so that Nepalis earning $5/day (the starting salary for college graduates) can earn more and find that it's not worth their time to scam someone over a hundred rupees." And that was my point, but what you're missing is that as long as their is a tendency to scam the people you are working with those jobs don't get created, those businesses are slower to grow and it stands as an obstacle to an environment that can produce prosperous living standards and higher wages. It's hard to invest capital when there is a lack of trust.<br /><br />Finally- this post was inspired by the fact that over the last few weeks I have talked to every person I know that runs a restaurant or business here and asking them about how they got started- and the same story about getting conned by local partners surfaced consistently. Over half a dozen times. It reinforced my own experiences with our lawyer, observing a few other business, and stories we've been told by other people over the course of being here. It's in the way the government expects bribes, the way poor quality items are passed off as even remotely suitable, the fact that some 50% of bottled water is contaminated, etc. These are the result of cutting corners for quick pay outs, and it's a practice that is almost encouraged because there seems to be so little accountability.Brian Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13550716842149752526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704658911492867741.post-21404334948735801172011-04-04T21:51:02.273+05:302011-04-04T21:51:02.273+05:30People are the same everywhere. I've had a ca...People are the same everywhere. I've had a carpenter run off with my deposit in Miami. I know the owners of a restaurant that has been operating for years fleecing tourists near Faneuil Hall in Boston. We've been robbed during our honeymoon in Thailand. I recently learnt of some very innovative petty scams that happen in Delhi. My mother-in-law fell for a pretty interesting scam involving a sublet over craigslist last year. My classmates were groped and pick-pocketed in Paris.<br /><br />The difference between the U.S. and Nepal is not the people. It's the fact that (on average) our incomes are lower. That makes it worth the time to scam someone over $5 whereas cheats in developed countries are scheming of ways to scam someone over $500 and up. Stores in the U.S. didn't start having fixed prices to be fair to everyone - they did it because it's more efficient just like big stores in Nepal are finding out (all big grocery stores in KTM like BB and saleways are now fixed price because it wouldn't be feasible to bargain at that scale). And even fixed prices in the U.S. is a mirage - it's an open secret that grocery stores in expensive (and ironically the poorest which usually means Black and Hispatic) parts of the city charge more for the same items. And just recently Best Buy was caught charging people different prices depending on their surfing habits.<br /><br />I disagree that Nepalis see western people as trusting and naive. They just know that on average they have more money and don't know the local language and customs which make them easy targets. Which is the problem for tourists anywhere in the world. I'm sorry you find "many Nepali business people to be less than ideal partners" but Nepalis don't need "education in the dynamics of social interaction" nor are westerners geese that lay golden eggs. What Nepal needs is jobs and stability for an extended period to lift up our economy so that Nepalis earning $5/day (the starting salary for college graduates) can earn more and find that it's not worth their time to scam someone over a hundred rupees.sthapithttp://harilo.com/sthapitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704658911492867741.post-38781311596171305762011-04-04T20:51:25.316+05:302011-04-04T20:51:25.316+05:30Good post. I see a very similar dynamic at work wi...Good post. I see a very similar dynamic at work with the students I work with. All having grown up in the cut throat world of refugee camps, they invariably open up with a cheater's play. It takes many years of enculturation to adapt this out of them.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10541484882834441713noreply@blogger.com